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  #1  
Unread 11-25-2017, 01:47 PM
Stefan O▀wald's Avatar
Stefan O▀wald Stefan O▀wald is offline
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Default Bearing Retainer

Good evening Gentlemen,

in my TZ350 engine I found the bearing retainer on the clutch axle to be not mounted. It seems to be a part of great importance, although in early RD models it seems to be not mounted too. In this particular engine the bearing moved outward 2mm, causing the primary wheel to scrape on the engine cover, which worked as the new retainer for the whole assembly now. Nevertheless the bike was rideable till the teardown.

Here you see the bearing coming out of its housing: http://www.caferacer-forum.de/galler...e/10900/medium

I want to make a new retaining plate, because it is not to be sold in europe anymore. First question is about the thickness of this plate. Anyone got one nearby to be measured?

Second question is about your thoughts getting the bearing in again. One though punch on the outer ring, whilst environment beeing heated up and surrounding screws beeing loose a little? Or opening the gearbox and do it the right way?

looking forward for your answers and best regards

Stefan
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  #2  
Unread 11-26-2017, 10:40 AM
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G JONES G JONES is offline
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Well - if I am looking at it correctly - there should be a circlip fitted to the outer race of that bearing - shouldn't be able to move far - even with the retainer missing...might be better to split the engine to make sure ?
As for the retainer - I may be able to find one - failing that I can take the measurements to make one...
Do you have any idea what sealant has been used on the cases ???
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  #3  
Unread 11-27-2017, 03:56 AM
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Stefan O▀wald Stefan O▀wald is offline
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Yes, I see it your way. In the parts list there is a circlip and it should be in this engine too, but it obviously isn't. I will then have to put it apart.

I found a great scan or picture of the retainer and I should be able to translate that to sheet metal and enjoying it. I just don't know the exact thickness but it should be 1-1,5mm.

As sealing compound reddish or orangeish silicone compound is used. What should be used correctly, silicone compound like Dirko or this blueish permanently plastic polyester based compound?

And where to find specific information like the tear down of the gearbox and in general blueprinting the engine? I only have a copy of the original owner's manual. Information is very limited about the TZ although the great GP times are passed a while
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  #4  
Unread 11-27-2017, 05:11 AM
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G JONES G JONES is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan O▀wald View Post
Yes, I see it your way. In the parts list there is a circlip and it should be in this engine too, but it obviously isn't. I will then have to put it apart.
Yes - very good idea - the gearbox is not safe like that !

Quote:
I found a great scan or picture of the retainer and I should be able to translate that to sheet metal and enjoying it. I just don't know the exact thickness but it should be 1-1,5mm.
If I get the time I'll measure one and let you know...

Quote:
As sealing compound reddish or orangeish silicone compound is used. What should be used correctly, silicone compound like Dirko or this blueish permanently plastic polyester based compound?
Yamabond - or suzuki did have a similar compound - best these days is the ThreeBond - which is the same - there are a lot of different types of ThreeBond - so be careful it's a type that is for use in an engine - TB1104 is common - although I have read that TB1184 is a suitable replacement (not tried it yet) and have also heard that a VW sealant "Dirko" is very similar - I guess you should check before use though...


Quote:
And where to find specific information like the tear down of the gearbox and in general blueprinting the engine? I only have a copy of the original owner's manual. Information is very limited about the TZ although the great GP times are passed a while
There are lots of Yamaha and other manuals available online - the original TZ Yamaha Owners Service Manual is very good - if you have one - the RD250 road bike manual will give you a lot of the stripdown procedures - the engine is very similar - added to the TZ manual - should be most of what you need...
Information about the TZ is very extensive even after all this time - you just need to find where to look...
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  #5  
Unread 11-28-2017, 10:49 PM
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Stefan O▀wald Stefan O▀wald is offline
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Thank you for your reply! Cool, i just discover the silimarities between TZ racers and the aircooled RD models / first LC models. It is good to know which parts then are interchangeable.

The crankcase sealants of my choice now are: ThreeBond 1184 (as you said replaces 1104) but hardly accessible in Germany, Loctite 5926 and Dirko HT red. All are silicone based and seem quite suitable for the task.

Concerning the outward movement of the bearing I will post some more infos when I pulled Pandora's crankcase case apart.
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  #6  
Unread 11-29-2017, 06:32 AM
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G JONES G JONES is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan O▀wald View Post
The crankcase sealants of my choice now are: ThreeBond 1184 (as you said replaces 1104) but hardly accessible in Germany, Loctite 5926 and Dirko HT red. All are silicone based and seem quite suitable for the task.
Not sure silicone is totally suitable - have to do more research...
Lots of places to get the ThreeBond - I use Rex Caunt - he also lists on the ebay site in Germany - but you could always contact him direct..
https://www.ebay.de/itm/THREE-BOND-G...YAAOSwMfJZ0o-T
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  #7  
Unread 12-05-2017, 10:05 PM
Gary Gary is offline
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Default Bearing Retaining plate and jointing compound

The retaining plate you are talking about has always been a mystery to me since as stated in the post the outer race has a circlip groove for a circlip to prevent the axial movement of the bearing in the crankcase. Further, the bearing outer race is on many engines proud of the crankcase face so that the plate is not flush with the crankcase face so that the retaining screws tend to buckle the plate when tightened
I have always not fitted this plate and never had a problem.

I have used Loctite 5922 Flange sealant very successfully, available in a tube and you can paint it on the joint faces with a small paint brush.

Gary
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  #8  
Unread 12-06-2017, 05:23 AM
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We've had engines with and without the plate. The one without were a set of earlier RD converted cases. I seem to recall either not drilled for the plate or no bosses to drill.

Given the circlip on the bearing controlling the axial movement, I always wondered weather the plate was there to support the cases from spreading under load?

Al
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  #9  
Unread 12-09-2017, 07:50 AM
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Stefan O▀wald Stefan O▀wald is offline
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Dear Gentlemen,

I am yery happy about your answers. This proudness of the bearing out of the case made me wonder like crazy. Assuming everything is fine with the axle and the spacing on it, the problem must be on the side of the crankcase cover beeing to tight to the primary gear and allowing no gap between.

As you can see here...


The cover was involved in several crashes... it was repaired by welding, means of aluminium plugs, grinding, inserts and paint...


but wait, is the whole basement of the bassin sunken in?


So far, I thought the cone is original... seems like remains of a former crash


I'll try to fix it. As a precaution, I am looking now for a new used cover. If anyone got some spare parts, please let me know.
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  #10  
Unread Yesterday, 10:09 PM
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Stefan O▀wald Stefan O▀wald is offline
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Dear Gentlemen,

what is your mesurement on the primary gear cover like in the penultimate picture shown, edge of the casting clutch seal to planar ground?
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